Unknown Blade(s)

last update 26/05/03

This page is to display known knives and hopefully have someone identify it. There is no competition, no prize, just a way of passing on your knowledge to other people. If you have an unknown that you wish to put on this page please send it to me and I'll put in on the page for you. include dimensions, markings etc. as much as you can on the blade to help us identify it for you. Note:- click on image for larger version of images

 

UNKNOWN

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Unknown sawback bayonet. It is a volunteer item or possibly an Indian arsenal blade. item came from Scotland, hilt is very similar to the Lancaster Volunteer with steel cross guard and pommel, but is different in detail. MRD is 18mm. All steel has been highly polished and blued. Only marking is an Enfield inspection stamp on the grip, although this may just be a spare grip. Any ideas on the origin of this bayonet would be gratefully received.

 

2) An unknown scabbard for a 1907 pattern bayonet. It is is of very high quality and is not a Siamese or German Ersatz one (known version anyway). The quality of the workmanship does not indicate Turkish although they did use the 1907 and made steel scabbards for shortened ones if you have any ideas please let me know Photographs courtesy of Jim Doherty

It may be that this scabbard is actually one of those made for the UK VTC bayonets, there were three types of metal scabbard for these. The VTC has an 1888 style pommel and hilt with a 1907 style blade, so the scabbard would fit a 1907

unknown steel scabbard for 1907.jpg (10824 bytes)unknown steel scabbard for 1907 throat.jpg (36168 bytes)unknown steel scabbard for 1907 bottom.jpg (35384 bytes)

Steel scabbard of unknown origin

 

 

Uses throat from early pattern scabbard

 

 

 

Bottom of scabbard shaped to imitate chape on original leather scabbard

 

 

4) A Remington Yataghan of unknown origin, the Belgium marking on the pommel is typical of markings applied to blades imported into the US during a period when the country of import had to be marked on all weapons, and is not indicative of the country of original origin. The Blade fullers are similar to those of Italian made bayonets and not French, German or Belgian any help would be appreciated

 

Typical Yataghan shape, dimensions are typical of the French 1866 and other similar brass hilted blades

 

 

 

Belgium mark on pommel typical of US import requirements

 

 

 

Poor fit of cross guard is atypical of blades of this period

 

 

5)Czech VZ24 with oversize grips and "swan" marking on grips.  Anyone identify which country this is for

 

czech t block export.jpg (60727 bytes)czech t block export serial.jpg (63978 bytes)czech t block export grips.jpg (81567 bytes)

T block VZ24 with oversize grips

 

 

 

Serial under Pommel and along tang, and oversize grips

 

 

 

Swan (?) mark on hilt of VZ24

 

 

6)Another VZ24 variation with different pommel shape and more rounded muzzle ring, I believe it is probably for a South American Country but would appreciate comments or identification

 

VZ24 Variation, probably for a South American country Has slightly different pommel and muzzle ring shapes

 

 

N block CSZ marking

 

 

 

Comparison of standard VZ24 (top) to variation

 

7)Reputedly a 1907 for use by the home Guard, but if so what rifle does the modified mounts fit to?

 

uk 1907 HG  Chapman.jpg (80463 bytes)uk 1907 HG  machined pommel side.jpg (83247 bytes)uk 1907 HG  machined pommel.jpg (70008 bytes)

Chapman made 1907 used by Home guard in WWII

 

 

 

Pommel and ring were modified for an unknown firearm

 

 

 

Rough machining on pommel and flat on top of muzzle ring

 

8)At first glance this appears to be one of the Australian Trials bayonets for their "jungle carbine" however although the muzzle ring is the right size the blade is unmarked - trials blades used standard blades. The blade is poor quality and is slightly different in dimensions. I would appreciate any help possible on identifying this one.

 

 This bayonet is an unknown one based on the 17" Trials bayonet, it does not however have the correct markings and there are some dimensional differences.

 

9)Converted French Gras bayonet, it has a bushed muzzle ring (15mm) with adjusting nut cut away, is cut to 310mm and the cut down scabbard has had a round style frog stud added Kiesling says they are British Home guard

 

Converted French Gras reportedly for use by the Home Guard. It is identified as this by Kiesling tentatively and stated as such by ABC. Can anyone confirm this or offer a better identification

 

 

 

Bushed muzzle ring to 15mm and modified frog stud on shortened scabbard

7a) Another variation on this blade has been supplied by Michael Curran, although the scabbard is the same the hilt modifications are different

Same length and scabbard mods

 

 

 

Muzzle ring remains the same size, although some of the adjuster has been removed

 

 

 

Rear of pommel has been modified for clearance

 

10)P*S marked Remington Yataghan - anyone identify the country of manufacture/use

 

Remington Yataghan of unknown origin

 

 

P*S makers mark on Blade is only marking, Guess is Belgian Stevens of Maastricht

I thought this was Italian but am not so sure now, more research is needed

Originally thought to be a Kropatschek bayonet made for France by Steyr in Austria. It was found not to be one of these but despite finding one similar in another collection and a picture mistakenly id'ing as per my first impression (early Stephens book) I have yet to positively ID it. The best guess at the moment is that the item is a variation of the Remington Nagant made by Belgium for Russia, but this has still to be confirmed. The MRD is 17.5mm not 18 as per the Gras, and there is no muzzle ring adjuster either. I have added further pictures to compare it with a Kropatschek that I have subsequently acquired.

Kropatschek on right

 

Kropatschek on top

 

Kropatschek on left

Similar to the Rumanian Peabody but with several minor but significant differences such as the throat lip marked ?arlie. It is not known who this bayonet is made for. Unfortunately the press stud has been lost so it is not possible to see if this is marked OEWG. The only marking is the serial number on the pommel.

 



Unknown
 
1888 pattern bayonet
Total length = mm                  Blade length =  Blade width =  MRD = 
converted UK 1888 to single edged fighting knife
Unknown but possibly Turkish conversion as it fits the Turkish "35" Mauser bayonet mounts.  

If you have any information on the above blade(s) please send it to me to put on this page carl@old-smithy.info